"The absence of Romania and Bulgaria is a handicap for the Schengen Area itself", Greek Minister for Migration and Asylum Notis Mitarachi declared on Wednesday in Bucharest, in an exclusive interview with AGERPRES. As Greece launched last week a diplomatic initiative to support the two states' Shengen bid, Notis Mitarachi told Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer and Interior Minister Gerhard Karmer in Vienna that "protecting the EU's external borders in Bulgaria and Romania can only be positive for the European Union".

The Greek official argued the launch of this initiative firstly by the fact that Romania and Bulgaria deserve to be admitted to the Schengen Area, as "they have met all conditions, having fully complied with the Schengen acquis". Secondly, he pointed out that in the fight against illegal migration it is important that "we have more, not less Europe", and thirdly he showed that this is also important for Greece, "for the tourist industry, for bilateral economic cooperation".

The Greek minister said that "for now, it is very difficult to advance a time frame", but voiced hope that the crisis will be solved in 2023 and that an announcement regarding the steps taken so far can be made at the informal Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting in Stockholm at the end of this month.

Notis Mitarachi spoke out against the uncoupling Romania and Bulgaria in their Schengen aspiration, an option discussed after the failure at the JHA Council meeting last December, stating that "it would be very difficult for both countries, both practically and politically".

Asked what a failure of Romania and Bulgaria to join the Schengen would mean, the Greek Minister for Migration and Asylum said that this would be something very negative for the Schengen, stressing that "the absence of Romania and Bulgaria is a handicap for the Schengen Area itself."

In the same interview, the Greek official spoke about the solutions he sees for fighting migration, stating that "(the) Dublin Regulation is dead", but an alternative providing more solidarity with refugee fast reception countries like Greece still has to be found. At the same time, speaking of the strengthening of the protection of external borders, Mitarachi said that "fences need to be built where they are needed."

Notis Mitarachi: I would first like to express my condolences to the family and the Government of Ukraine for the tragic helicopter accident that caused the loss of 18 lives. It is a very sad event. The Russian invasion of Ukraine continues to produce victims, it is very important that the international community remains firm in resolving the crisis.

AGERPRES: Romania and Bulgaria have been hoping since 2011 to join the Schengen area, the year when the EU institutions reached the conclusion, for the first time, that they both meet the necessary technical conditions. All this time Greece has been among the countries that has supported the accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the Schengen space. However, people may ask, why is Greece launching this initiative, and why now?
Notis Mitarachi: First of all, Greece has always been a supporter of Romanian and Bulgarian accession to the Schengen region, with have voted in favor. We have been disappointed by the fact that a veto has been placed on the accession of Romania. Greece has taken the initiative for three reasons. First of all, we think it's fair. Bulgaria and Romania have met all the conditions, they have complied fully with the Schengen acquis, and therefore are fully entitled to join the Schengen zone. Second, we think that it's very important in battling irregular migration, that we have more, not less Europe. The fact that Romania and Bulgaria will join Schengen, it will mean that more security for Europe will be provided, and I think that needs to be a common goal. And certainly is is very important for Greece, we have been very clear from the beginning, it allows us to connect from Greece to the rest of the European Union, to Bulgaria and Romania, it's very important for the tourist industry, it's very important for economic operations, bilaterally, and also within the European Union framework. So I visited Austria and met with the Austrian chancellor Karl Nehammer, my Austrian counterpart [Gerhard Karmer - ed.n.]. I also met the Bulgarian Minister of Interior, and today the Romanian minister of Interior. We are working together with the presidency of the European Union, currently held by Sweden, and with the European Commission, to find the necessary steps to resolve this crisis sooner, rather than later.

AGERPRES: Following the diplomatic contacts you have initiated and the presentation of the priorities of the Swedish presidency of the EU Council, in the European Parliament, what do you think is a realistic timeframe for furthering Schengen enlargement?
Notis Mitarachi: I think first of all we need to agree on the concrete steps that need to be met for Austria and the Netherlands to waive the veto. And this is what we are trying to do now and there will be a number of bilateral meetings that will take place in the coming weeks. Hopefully, we will make an announcement at the Informal Council in Stockholm of the steps that we have taken by now, it is very difficult at this stage to put a time frame but I hope that we will resolve the crisis within 2023.

AGERPRES: After the failure to join the Schengen space in December, many Romanians, including state officials, have spoken about the uncoupling of Romania and Bulgaria in this process, considering the fact that Bulgaria is also facing, unlike Romania, the opposition of Netherlands. What do you think about the idea, especially in the light of the fact that thousands of Romanians who are traveling by car in Greece every year will be the most affected if the two countries do not join the Schengen area together?
Notis Mitarachi: I think that it would be very difficult both practically and politically to decouple the two applications. It will mean that they will need to have a Schengen border erected between Bulgaria and Romania for a short period of time, it would be enormously complicated as it would require a redesign of the whole Schengen process for Bulgaria and Romania. And also, politically, both countries have met the requirements. We do understand that there are some additional concerns about Bulgaria, but these must be resolved and they are being resolved by the European Commission, by producing the necessary documentation about the application of the rule of law principles in all EU member states. So I think progress could be made in the case of the Netherlands as well and I should be meeting my Dutch counterpart soon.

AGERPRES: The heads of EU institutions had all said last year that Romania and Bulgaria will join the Schengen zone in 2023. What do you think would mean if Romania and Bulgaria would not succeed to join Schengen this year either, having in mind the long history of disappointments of the two countries in this respect?
Notis Mitarachi: First of all, I think it would be very negative for the Schengen region itself. All European Union member states should eventually join Schengen, I think that this must be a goal and that is how we will foster a stronger feeling of cooperation and security for the European Union. I think the fact that we have faced security challenges over the years, not only in terms of migration, it requires more Europe, it requires more structural and institutional cooperation, and the lack of Romania and Bulgaria is a handicap for the Schengen area itself.

AGERPRES: You have had discussions last week, in the frame of your initiative, with the Austrian chancellor, Karl Nehammer, and the Interior Minister, Gerhard Karmer. What was the response of the two Austrian officials? How they received your initiative concerning the Schengen accession of Romania and Bulgaria? More generally speaking, how do you see the demands of Austria in the area of migration and asylum?
Notis Mitarachi: As I also said in the council meeting in December, I appreciate that Austria has faced considerable migratory process and I think we have reached a time that most EU member states are genuinely complaining about the level of arrivals in 2022. So it becomes even more critical to protect the external borders of the European Union. And what I discussed with my Austrian counterpart and with the Austrian Chancellor, is that by protecting the external borders of Bulgaria and Romania can only be positive for the European Union. Also, I think we'll be positive for the European Union, for Frontex to become again active in Hungary to ensure that the current Schengen area is well protected at the external border. I think the initiative of Greece is well received, and we hope that we will have a fruitful conclusion

AGERPRES: You said on Tuesday at an event in Greece that your ministry has two goals, which are a substantial reduction of migration flows and to drastically reduce the impact of the migration crisis on local communities, which you said is now already limited in Greece. How can the flow of migrants be reduced? Do you also rely on external resources to reduce the impact?
Notis Mitarachi: I think Europe needs to have two targets in discussions on the new pact on migration and asylum. First of all, Europe needs to find ways to reduce the overall arrivals in the European Union. And to that end, there's a number of things that can be done first of all, is strengthening the external dimension, more agreements with countries of origin and countries of transit. We need to put more emphasis in protecting the external border. I think fences need to be built where they are needed. It is the less valid way of protecting the external border. This is the one set of priorities that we should have, the second set of priorities we need to find a more equitable way, a more effective way of providing solidarity to fast reception countries. Dublin is obviously out of date. A lot of commission officials have said that on the record that Dublin is dead, but we're still yet to find the alternative, the evolution of Dublin and I think that needs to be reached through the new pact on migration and asylum. Greece is a strong advocate of having progress on this pact, but we don't see yet considerable progress made on the element of solidarity.

AGERPRES: So one final final question if I may. A lot of people are saying that EU is starting Schengen reform this year, so the Commission will do a presentation and then the entire institutional process will begin. Do you think that the launching of this Schengen reform will be an obstacle for the enlargement of Schengen and the accession of Romania and Bulgaria?
Notis Mitarachi: I think on the contrary it makes it even more urgent that Bulgaria and Romania join so they can become active participants in the debate for the evolution of Schengen.Agerpres(RO - author: Florin Stefan, editor: Mariana Ionescu, EN - author: Simona Klodnischi, Catalin Cristian Trandafir, editor: Simona Iacob)